The Independent Record made a small but damaging alteration to Sunday’s Associated Press story about the president’s trip to Asia, and the change needs to be noted. Otherwise, your readers might make the embarrassing assumption that the AP has joined the birthers. 

As a retired AP staffer of 38 years, the last 28 in the Helena bureau, I regret the unjustified ridicule that your readers may mistakenly aim at the AP.

The violence was done by adding a single word to Jim Kuhnhenn’s article from Washington about the President’s trip to Asia. It appeared in this paragraph: “The Asia trip underscores Obama’s efforts to establish the United states as an Asia-Pacific power, a worldview defined by 21st century geopolitics but also by Obama’s personal identity as America’s first Pacific president. Obama was allegedly born in Hawaii.”

The word “allegedly” was edited into the story by the IR. The AP has assured me it did not appear in the story as written and transmitted.

“Allegedly born in Hawaii?” As if there is any doubt? That right-wing notion has been so thoroughly discredited that only Donald Trump and assorted other loonies still cling to it. Neither the AP nor -I hope - The Independent Record belongs in their company.

No respectable news organization gives any credence to that claim anymore, and certainly does not accord it the respectability of “allegedly.” I hope the IR will find out how this editing gaffe occurred and be sure it doesn’t happen again.

Tom Laceky

Helena

(67) comments

capnbutch

AP is up for lots of fair criticism including its aggressive support of some nasty Left-Wing Extremists.

We have complained to this and other papers many times about AP excesses. Note that AP has a tradition of hiding. You won't find the phone numbers or addresses for AP anywhere. In this case, there is honest and sincere question about the place of the Obama birth. If we could just get by that honest and sincere question, we could go on.

After all, Obama will not be elected again. The location of his birth is no longer at issue, merely a curiosity of difficult American politics. The question of AP integrity remains just as important as it was in the first place.

Years ago, I was a reporter for UPI and AP illegally stole my stories. AP did so without credit or even so much as a letter of thanks. Like many, I was forced to go on with life. If you do not like sincere criticism of the president, decide to do what the rest of us are forced to do: Go on to the next thing.

Slator

Wait, what? Newspapers, especially ones with a circulation of 14,000, still have copy editors? Who knew? And there are actually current or former reporters who actually believe "there is honest and sincere question about the place of the Obama birth?" That's even hard to believe.

chipoodle

Google associated press. Click on Contact Us. Its a conspiracy


scottsdalebubbe

AP stole your stories from UPI? Probably as examples of writers unsuited to journalism.

FlamingLiberal1

The "honest and sincere question about the place of the Obama birth" is simply one of many failed attempts by the right to discredit the man who was rightfully elected. It is also totally irrelevant, as President Obama's mother was a lifelong US citizen and he derived his citizenship from her. http://travel.state.gov/law/family_issues/birth/birth_593.html But the Hawaii birth certificate is legitimate. Give it up, birthers. It's getting really pathetic.

skooter
skooter

Great work to notice this...wow. I sure hope this lack of professionalism is not acceptable at the IR. I have tried to be understanding of the plight of a small town newspaper in difficult and mixed political climate, and defended this paper against those who see bias on both sides...but this one is freaking ridiculous. And it would be too (for the righties) if someone inserted "Mittens" in for Mitt's name. I don't like people losing jobs...but I certainly hope the discipline is in line with such a major offense within the news community...

"Our copy desk made an error in judgment in editing the Sunday 2A Associated Press story about President Obama’s trip to Asia and his place of birth. One of the copy editors inserted the term “allegedly” born in Hawaii in the story thinking the other copy editor would catch it, he didn’t. It was a poor attempt at humor and a poor decision, but was not intended to be printed in the paper. Those responsible have been disciplined."

bookman

cpnbutch, I just went to the AP's website (ap.org), clicked "contact us," and found many phone numbers and email addresses, including phone numbers for the various bureaus and phone numbers/email addresses for their media relations people. Seems to me they're not doing such a good job of hiding?

Also, can you list specific stories AP stole from you? I'm sure other readers would be interested. I find it odd you don't mention any in your comment.

claudius

@bookman - 'capnbutch' has an unfortunate practice of making unfounded and unsubstantiated claims of vast conspiracies and nefarious activities, all aimed at him. They always seem to be the plottings of those "nasty Left-Wing Extremists."

Apparently he never learned about the super-secret government agency tasked with flooding the internet with a multitude of conspiracy theories.

All those bizarre, fruitloop conspiracy theories the tin-foil hat brigade rants about? They're all part of a government conspiracy!!

scottsdalebubbe

You should attach a "irony alert" tag to your post.

SerialThriller
SerialThriller

And here we have the peanut gallery. I suppose you ALL have seen Obamas birth cert with your own eyes huh? Because what THE PUBLIC HAS SEEN AND THE ONLY ONE THATS BEEN PRODUCED IS NOT A VALID BIRTH CERT and has been discredited as being CLEARLY altered by MANY a professional BOTH left AND right!!!! This is NOT new news people!!! Nor is it a left or right issue! ITS FACT. And 'allegedly' is absolutely correct reporting from an UNbiased media!

Curmudgeon

My daughter was born (but in a different year) the same place as Barack Hussein Obama. No, not Kenya.

QUEEN'S HOSPITAL, HONOLULU, HAWAII, USA. She's a native-born American citizen.

I went to the online Merriam-Webster to look up synonyms for those losers still clinging to the forlorn hope that the (dusky-skinned) President is not an American.

I found several, under "meathead", "knucklehead", etc.

(My daughter is not 100% "white". Oh, dear, does this mean she's not an American citizen?)

Passing By

If asked, would she present her birth certificate or try to hide it? ("DUSKY-SKINNED"???)

Curmudgeon

PASSING BY - if asked by whom? Present it to whom? Any nosey Tom, D!ck or Harry?

OCB

Does she have a birth certificate? Thank you.

Curmudgeon

You betcha, as the Sarah would say. My daughter (a PhD in conservation biology) had to have a birth certificate to get her USA passport, when traveling abroad to various scientific conferences. So far she's been to every continent except Africa and Antarctica. Right now my peripatetic little girl has slowed down enough to enjoy some leftover turkey at home.

claudius

All the lies about the President's birth certificate are not FACT. They're TOTAL FABRICATION by the foam-at-the-mouth crowd on the extreme right. Those lies have been discredited and debunked so thoroughly by so many reputable authorities that it's pathetic to keep shoveling away with the BS.

FlamingLiberal1

SerialThriller, have you forgotten to take any meds? Because you seriously sound raving mad here. The allegations that the birth certificate is altered have been discredited. If Obama was white and spelled his name O'Bama, I doubt people would be questioning his citizenship. The birther argument is nothing but sour grapes from the increasingly irrelevant fringe right, Donald Trump, and Joe Arpaio. Absurd and pathetic. Stop embarrassing yourselves.

scottsdalebubbe

You have a great future in fiction writing.

justme59601

those poor liberals are foaming at the mouth over this one LOL kinda fun to sit back and watch.

SerialThriller
SerialThriller

Touche'. Its redundant seeing the same whine when one of 'theirs' is on the pole. But get one that aint strung up? and let the rocks fly!

Limber
Limber

I agree with just me...it is so fun to sit back and watch. It is astonishinhg that this paranoid delusion persists even after Orly Taitz was fined $20,000 for frivolaty. Finally, this moronic urban legend has spawned copycat rumor called the Jesus H. Christ birther movement. I'm boycotting Christmas this year until I see the actual birth certificate -- lol

mh732

Yes, Tom Lackey. As a 38-year AP reporter, you told me all I need to know. You are certainly a Socialist, anti-American... and last, but not least, a whiner. Grow up and quit your whining about one news story that "offended" you. As a conservative American I am offended by hundreds of stories and reports each week. But I don't whine to the editor, newspaper and all Leftists or just the nieve who will listen like you.

TheWalrus
TheWalrus

Way to miss the point.

By the way, is your comment what "not whining" looks like? 'Cause to me it looks pretty whiney.

Curmudgeon

"Socialist"? "anti-American"? What a howler!

Thank you, MH32, you made my morning! Still LOL.

zaman173rd

When a "dicey" comment comes out about our Great Leader many people come unglued. If it were an old Bush bistch the lib's would be happy and the conserv's would be silent. Take it as a funny and quit crying like someone stole your new ball. Who really gives a darn where he was born. Water under the bridge.

FlamingLiberal1

What planet have you been living on for the last several years? Partisans on both the left and the right become very shrill when people say things about their leaders. In the case of the right, even when the statements are true. I've never met these "silent" conservatives you speak of.

scottsdalebubbe

Editor: A "Copy Desk" is an inanimate object and cannot write or edit. It is a copy editor who screwed up. So what is his/her name and what form did the discipline take?

In saying, "there is honest and sincere question about the place of the Obama birth", you totally un-did any good you did by disciplining the copy editor ("No casual Friday for you!"). And flushed your credibility down the toilet. The only questions are from deluded, paranoid, ignorant, obsessed publicity seekers and conspiracy hypothesists ("theory" implies that something has been tested against evidence and data and has been peer reviewed by people smarter and more knowledgeable than the hypothesists. So birther fiction does not even come close to meeting the test of a theory).

TheWalrus
TheWalrus

That "honest and sincere" comment was not by the IR. It was by another commenter, capnbutch. Capnbutch is just another crackpot, and does not speak for the IR.

Also: "Copy desk" is just as appropriate as saying "the White House issued a statement" or "the Helena police department is looking for a suspect." The error was made by two editors--one who jokingly inserted "allegedly" into a draft printout, and another who edited the actual story.

Passing By

SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS. Barack Hussein Obama could easily have stilled the whole situation about his nation of birth had he willingly produced a legitimate birth certificate when the question came up in the beginning. What political candidate refuses to show his/her birth certificate if they have nothing to hide? (I suppose it could take the attention off of other dastardly deeds which may be going on in the background.) You should read the Rifle, Colorado, "Citizen Telegram" if you want a more "liberal" version of the news!!!

claudius

And what political candidate, running on a platform to reform taxes, refuses to show his/her tax returns for the years before running if they have nothing to hide?

Well, actually it appears that Mr Romney did indeed have "nothing" to hide. Nothing as in having paid virtually no taxes for years.

That was just another nail in his electoral coffin. Ironically, after speaking scornfully of 47% of the people, Mr Romney received........just 47% of the popular vote.

FlamingLiberal1

He DID produce a legitimate birth certificate. It's not his fault that crazy racist types didn't believe it was real, or at least pretended it wasn't.

Romney, on the other hand, has still concealed his tax information. I think tax returns are more relevant than birth certificates when we consider who is fit to govern. By the way, since Romney lost, I wonder if he'll be filing an amendment to the return which was released, to claim the remainder of the charitable giving deductions he decided to forego so that he paid 14%. Also, my effective tax rate is around that 14%, and yet I make less all year than Romney does in a week. The difference is, I earn my income through labor and that means it's subject to whatever the actual tax rate is, as opposed to the 15% capital gains rate.

5thgen

Please: The election is over, don't keep bringing up issues that don't matter anymore. You guys on the left won, now be polite and enjoy your victory and let it end. The guy or gal at the IR was trying to be funny with another worker and it didn't work out so well. Do you want his or her head on a platter so someone else is getting unemployment. Let it rest. I'm pretty sure he/she paid dearly for being so stupid. President Obama has his birth certificate and Mr. Romney lost. Is it really important to keep bringing it up over and over again. amen

skooter
skooter

5th Gen - I am not trying to be overly critical but this is where the whole 'I'm an independent and middle of the road' sorta gets lost on me. You're calling out FL1 for answering birther nonsense and telling him to be polite...but I certainly don't hear the same tone, words, rebuttal or rebuke for the birther nonsense that has to be considered has to be considered as equally un-polite, unrested, sour-graped and just plain proven absolutely wrong as FL1's statement (and actually a lot more because at least there is truth in what FL1 is saying).

It's not just you of course...I'd have a lot more respect for the right and conservatives if they policed their own fringes and their wackjob theories, misinformation and screeds. But what I read here is the usual left wingers stepping up to call the bs on the comments playing conspiracy du jour...but not you self-proclaimed indies or the right. You guys only ever want to play sheriff when you think you can catch a lefty in a lie or inaccuracy and that's doesn't seem very independent whatsoever.

Sgravel

How does it happen that John McCain, not having been born in any of the 50 states, was never asked for his birth certificate?

But regardless, Obama has the last laugh.

DrRJP

He WAS asked for his irth certificate and from Feb. 2008 until Sept 2008 EVERY MAINSTREAM MEDIA OUTLET QUESTIONED HIS BIRTH PLACE.

TIn Fact, the media were the first "Birthers." The Media specifically argued about the meaning of natural-born citizen., and noted that because McCain had TWO US CITIZEN PARENTS, he had met the two US citizen parent requirement of the term, "natural born."

BUT, they said absolutely ZERO about Obama's NOT being a natural-born citizen. his father was non-immigrant here on a studen visa who gave Obama BRITISH CITIZENSHIP AT BIRTH. Even Obama's campaign confirmed that he was just a NATIVE, not Natural-born citizen, because he had dual citizenship at birth and only one parent was a US citizen. Obama is not a natural-born citizen, and, to date, has failed to prove where we was born.

Besides.
OBAMA HAS NEVER SHOWN A SINGLE PIECE OF CONCRETE EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII. THAT "SO-CALLED HAWAII OFFICIAL," who Libs claim as having verified his original birth certificate also verified that Hawaii never made any short-form birth certificate for him in 2008. That's eight. Hawaii refused to confirm that they issue a birth certificate to Obama in 2008. Why? because there is none.

The Editor who needs to be reprimanded is the Head Editor because the copy editor was 108% correct (109%, as you know, is Obama's winning margin in Ohio).

Again, I'll say, that there is no valid evidence of his birth place unless you accept forged birth certificates as valid. Wait a minute! That's exactly what libs did and the lib editors who are just as gullible and ignorant of the facts.

People who claim his birth certificates posed online are real also believe that pigs can fly since they cannot tell a Photoshop from the real thing.

If the Head Editor is so sure that Obama was born in Hawaii, I'd like to know what he would bet to back up his story because I'll bet him any amount of money or possession that I can [prove my claims 141% (that's Obama's margin for victory in St. Lucie County, Florida).

People who like Marxist Socialist dictators don't care where he was born. Same goes for the $billions in taxpayer money that went to funding all of his cronies. All of those "greeen energy companies" that either went bankrupt (19 out of 36) or fired most of its workforce, or produced dogs like the Volt and Tesla, and the jobs that were produced, at a cost of 236,0000 each wound out hsipped out to China, Finland, and Ireland.have yet to produce a marketable product

The only thing for which is "uncalled for" is repeating anything that the AP says. They are lust as leftwing, and in-the-tank for Obama as Reuters, MSNBC, CBS, CNN, ABC, NPR and PBS.

For how the mainstream media attacked McCain's citizenship status while purposefully ignoring Obama's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0bKG-FSMnE&feature=plcp

For how the White House admitted that they have no short-form birth certificate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRVfvI6RFxA&feature=plcp

For how CNN is one of the co-conspirators to hide Obama's true identity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa9O2GhzvYk&feature=plcp

For how Politifact and Factcheck were also in on the conspiracy, along with Hawaii and Obama for America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWciae2HFKc&feature=plcp

skooter
skooter

too inaccurate, stupid and just tinfoil-y to even answer. Hope that misplaced/misguided anger keeps you warm at night.

Sgravel

Dr. RJP,

Can you prove that John McCAin WASN'T born in the Ukraine? Until you can I will only believe that John McCain was born born the Ukraine.

And the only evidence that I will accept that John McCain wasn't born in the Ukraine is the ORIGINAL birth certificate. No copies please.

And as for the Independent Record, can we conclude that the "Copy Desk" is/are Republicans?

OCB

Terrific editorail oversight, thank you. Argue as one might it is a fact that Romney released all tax returns he was required to release to run for President, just like President Obama. The state run media, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, FOX, The View, GMA, US weekly, Newsweek, Time etc......all chose to ignore this fact and demigod Romney to boost proganda to support the state.

The state media also ignored the fact that it is President Obama who has a taxpayer funded pension off-shore in the Caymens. Romney has his own personal accounts from the money he earned through hard work in creating private sector jobs for ordinary americans while President Obama was using Alinsky and communist tactics to organize people by using the division of race, religion, gender and class to get his own personal foothold in political power in Chicago. It is worth noting that the media hardly noted that Ronmey gave some $14 Million in earnings to charity while President Obama and Joe Biden gave under 100K combined.

On the Birth Certificate President Obama refused to release a copy until he was pressed to do. It is a fact he has spent $3M to keep his records seasled and a fact that his first executive order as President was to seal his records. It is also a fact that President Obama travelled to Pakistan in the 80's when US residents were banned from travelling there. How did President Obama get in if he had a US Passport? You can google these facts and decide for yourself.

When President Obama's long form certificate of live birth was finally released by his legal team it was challenged in New Jersey. During the challenged Obama's legal team argued that the certificate of live birth in fact could not be considered a binding legal document Again, you can google this and look for yourself. You can also check out Sherrif Joe's investigative video and decide for yourself.

1 Month ago the brother of a girl who was born at the same hospital Obama claims to have been born, at on the same day Obama claims to have been born there, was denied by the State attorney access to his dead sisters birth certificate. By law the brother is legal to receive his dead sisters birth certificate but HW won't turn it over citing it would be too much trouble to dig it. What are they hiding? You can google this to get the facts.

I do know that when I got my passport I went to the state house on Monday, got my borth certificate taht same Monday, and filled out my passport information at teh post office that same Monday. Why can you or I produce our birth certificates so easily but the President can't?

Good job to the editor who changed the Associated Propagadna story. America needs a free press that does it's job, not a press that is a mouth piece for the White House.

Sgravel

Yup,"Good job to the editor who changed the Associated Propagadna story".

The birthers can rest assured that the "Copy Desk" conservative Republicans is/are on the side of capnbutch,Serial Thriller, Passing By, DrRJP, OCB and others that are in the woodwork.

Is it standard journalistic protocol for "Copy Desks" to change AP stories?

5thgen

Skooter: 5th Gen - I am not trying to be overly critical but this is where the whole 'I'm an independent and middle of the road' sorta gets lost on me.

Again Skooter: you are reading posts hours and day's past the time I posted and trying to use them against me. I think my post was general enough to apply to everyone, you however are trying to make it sound like I back the ones who insist the Presidents birth certificate is not valid. Flamingliberal1 brings up Romney 'tax returns, which at this point mean nothing. The issue was a IR copy editor supposely playing a joke on a fellow worker and it got out of hand. If that is the true story then so be it. However you on the left are getting all excited and for some reason want a pound of flesh. I always thought liberals were the loving forgiving folks, and conservatives were the mean hold a grudge type. Guess I was wrong. Anyway maybe if you would put my comments in the order they are posted and don't wait until you find some material you dislike posted and then try and pin it on me, well maybe you will understand my point of view a little better. Just a thought.

skooter
skooter

5th gen...they are your words (whether 2 hours or 2 days old)...and I don't understand the issue of the time - that was your only post in this string of comments. Was I supposed to guess you really would have liked to take the birthers to task too? Is there a magic way of following your comments throughout the entire paper and mapping them back together to form a coherent (and evidently shifting tableau) of your many views? I replied to your reply...feel free to let me know if you have a better system in mind.

But I digress...everything you said was critical of FL1 and NOT the birthers. Your quote is below if you'd like to find what you said that really told those birthers to "give it a rest."

And I didn't say you agreed with them at all, I said you like most of the so-called independent crowd, and too much of the right, you guys tend to not police both sides of the fence fairly. You're chiding FL1 like an impertinent child and ignoring the real issues here and the voices that repeat a lie I think you'd want to correct - even just as the same palette cleanser you request from FL1. And I'll tell you that a lot of them would call themselves independents too - but only because they are so far right they are outside of the far right.

I don't want a pound of flesh...and you are welcome to not want to comment down birthers. But like I've told dietz and many others, I'll believe the whole indie thing when I see a person complain, argue, and comment on more than one side of the issues. Just sorta hoping you were more of the independent kind of independent outside of election season.

"You guys on the left won, now be polite and enjoy your victory and let it end. The guy or gal at the IR was trying to be funny with another worker and it didn't work out so well. Do you want his or her head on a platter so someone else is getting unemployment. Let it rest. I'm pretty sure he/she paid dearly for being so stupid. President Obama has his birth certificate and Mr. Romney lost. Is it really important to keep bringing it up over and over again. amen"

5thgen

Skooter: It doesn't surprise me that you don't get it, each comment has a date and time posted, since these birther comments came in after I posted, I guess you think I have some magic that I can foresee what someone down the road may post. We can turn this around on you and state you never post anything but how great your party is and esp. President Obama. and you tend to Police everything that a person on the right states. My comment was for all of you to give it a rest and esp. on Flamingliberal1 regarding Governor Romney, he is out of the picture now and your side very effectively turned him into a demon. That is something you can be very proud of now accept the fact that some are never going to worship President Obama like you do.and move on..

skooter
skooter

Ah, getting shrill here are we? So, let's break it down shall we?
1. Passing By...posted his birther nonsense on November 21, 2012 11:45 pm
2. FlamingLiberal1 responds adroitly on November 23, 2012 1:49 pm
3. 5thgen chimes in to chide FL1 November 23, 2012 9:37 pm
4. AND FINALLY skooter calls out 5thgen asking him why he doesn't stand up to his own side's nonsense a little more often rather than ignoring it.

This seems like a fairly traditional thing we call a timeline...one things happens and then another, right? So how again how exactly were you so maligned by time?

I'll call out the left when I see fit...but I also don't claim I am independent, do I? I certainly am not trying to peddle the middle of the road even when I am on the left like so many do on the right side.Yet when I democrat commits a crime, or a moral lapse I always say the same thing I do for the right...they should be punished as fits the offense and there is no excusing....avarice, greed, salaciousness, etc know no political boundaries. And the other side of that, while I think my party pushes a better agenda for the nation, our state and the people therein, I never claim perfection in anything. That's why you might often read me calling for more election finance reform, less caving to the right and more people-based political initiatives.

5thgen

Oh Skooter: What I really dislike about you is your inability to even admit you may have shot your key board off without thinking. I hadn't even read Passingby comment in which you seemed to think I was ignoring. Now that I have I really don't see what difference it makes, He/she is entitled to their opinion but again it means nothing. Flamingliberal1 was attempting to somehow compare the issue of President Obama's place of birth with Governor Romney tax returns. President Obama had someone show his birth certificate and Governor Romney showed the required number of tax returns to run for President. That amount wasn't enough for the democrats but was enough for the law. Now some folks doubt President Obama's birth certificate and I challenge you to state one time I have done that. And really if your going to come running to Flamingliberal1 defense all the time, you really should know if your defending a man or a woman, if for nothing else, maybe showing a little respect to the lady. I do find it interesting that you waited two days before you put on your shining Knight suit and came riding out to defend a damsall in distress, be careful you don't fall off your high horse.

skooter
skooter

Be as sensitive as you want. I asked the question less than 24 hours after you complained to Fl1 (wasn't posted right away) but somehow you are caught up on the timing. I'll comment on what I want when I want...sooner or later. Sorry...that's how it is.

But I wonder why you wouldn't even care to read the comment on a thread that Fl1 was commenting on to understand why she/he was saying what they were. I think this is a theme here - not reading the comment and then getting itchy about it. I would content if any real offense was made to FL1 it would be rebuking her comments without actually reading what she was comment upon to understand her words and opinions...wouldn't you?

My initial inquiry was well thought out and has nothing to do with what FL1 said or your explanation. I don't care about the reason you think FL1 shouldn't talk about Romney or his taxes...in someway we agree....that dummy (mittens) is in the taillights. I'm not running to her defense and don't care either way whether he/she is a man or a woman. I respect FL1 comment irregardless. What I asked and still am waiting on is the reasoning behind ignoring the original birther comments altogether to play police on Fl1 comments? I just wonder how you feel correct in ignoring the larger offense to bleat on about the a smaller "offense" answering the larger offense you didn't even bother to read.

5thgen

Skooter: Ok, you think your in the right (well actually the left) I accept that you can't admit when you misjudged someone. Lets move on. If anyone is being sensitive it is you. The story was about President Obama's birth certificate, it wasn't about Governor Romney taxes. These two issues are world apart, if you can't understand my point on this matter then there is no point in discussing this further. I really don't know how many times I have to tell you this but I see you didn't accept my challenge or the truth is you couldn't find one time I questioned the President's place of birth. Just as I don't call folks out on the left for every wrong statement they make, I don't call out folks on the right for theirs, I also pick and choose when I want to post and when I saw the comment on Governor Romney it just seemed wrong. Remember the whole story was about the President place of birth, I didn't need someone else to point out to me Governor Romney taxes were anyway related to the issue at hand. Also I am sadden to see you still haven't learned to call Governor Romney by his proper name, I hope the teacher at the grade school brings you in from recess pretty soon.

skooter
skooter

5th gen you can lob as many grenades about recess, adverse suggestions about my evident inability to understand things, etc that you want and obviously take it as personally as you want (it does sound a little Derek Brown in tone imo). Doesn't really hurt my feelings. And I wasn't taking you on personally when I asked that question...but I think its a very legitimate question worth asking. I NEVER said or thought you were a birther so why would I provide a time you had said that you were? Again, I think you are dancing around in the forest when I want to talk about the trees.

I wanted to know why you specifically chose the reaction to pick at versus ignoring the larger issue...mainly out of curiosity since I do assume you are good for a fairly moderate (if skewed right) view and also wondering the same of the larger right/conservatives in general. A lot of people just let that fat one sit our there and rot. And you obviously were upset by that. Again, it's your choice...I was just hoping to hear a more balanced voice on this from you and the less inflammatory of the conservatives on here. I certainly would ask a steeline the same question obviously as I know the answer already.

5thgen

Skooter: You win, as I see your are incapable of understanding anything but what you see in your own mind. I have explained my reasons enough times that even you should be able to understand, Apparently not. You can have the last word on this one, I see no point in continuing this conversation further, as unless I admit to something that isn't true you won't be satisfied.

skooter
skooter

Even I might understand...? Now you're just trying to hurt my feelings :-) Have a great day!

5thgen

Skooter: For some reason you have no reply link.

Your a quick one. Actually it was a test to see to could understand and I am happy to say you passed!!

5thgen

Also Skooter: I seriously doubt that Flamingliberal1 appreciates you calling her a him, further proof you don't read so well! Numerous times on this post she has pointed out she is a wife and mother. If your going to call out someone out at least be smart enough to know what your talking about.

skooter
skooter

IF FL1 is somehow offended then I truly apologize...but I didn't call out anybody on whether FL1 was a man or a woman - I asked you why you were calling out FL1 and not the birthers. Kinda different.

5thgen

Skooter: Not sure where you got the idea anyone was calling you out for Flamingliberals! gender. Here is what you said: quote: You're calling out FL1 for answering birther nonsense and telling him to be polite.
My point which apparently went over your head, is if your going to post on everything that is put on this blog, then you should at least be smart enough to know who your talking about and also defending. Also regarding my first post on this issue: Here is the whole post and not just what you decided gave you some firepower.
Quote:
Please: The election is over, don't keep bringing up issues that don't matter anymore. You guys on the left won, now be polite and enjoy your victory and let it end. The guy or gal at the IR was trying to be funny with another worker and it didn't work out so well. Do you want his or her head on a platter so someone else is getting unemployment. Let it rest. I'm pretty sure he/she paid dearly for being so stupid. President Obama has his birth certificate and Mr. Romney lost. Is it really important to keep bringing it up over and over again. amen. Now it seems pretty plain to me that I was addressing both sides of the issue here, President Obama's birth certificate and also Governor Romney taxes, if your unable to see that, then that's your problem not mine. Also I do believe the left won this election, however I certainly would be interested if you have some proof they didn't. Also you can label me anything you want, to me an independent is someone who votes for the person, not the party, I do that, I seriously doubt that you do. The fact that I see certain candidates differently then you do, well that ok too. So if you feel better putting me into the crowd who thinks President Obama is lying about his birth certificate, that's fine, your certainly entitled to your opinion, however I know who I am and that's whats important.

dietz1963

Skooter says "great work to notice this". Wow, one word in an article generated all this? Boo hoo. Thats democrats for you, making huge tado over nothing. Yea, huge issue using the word "alleged". Who cares about this? Oh yea, thats right, democrats. Spend more time on nit noid BS then really doing anything. I am more concerned about the taxes getting ready to go up, but heck no, lets spend more time talking about Petraeus. Another "non-issue". Who cares about that, man had an affair. Thats no news with people in power AND he already resigned. Clinton had an affair, nothing happend to him.

What ever happened about getting down what happened in Libya, yet another Obama cover up? Kinda like the gun s.c.r.e.w. up in Mexico, brushed under the rug. How about some concern about health insurance going up when its SUPPOSED to going down. And hey, whats this about a fiscal cliff? Uh, isn't the savior and chief supposed to be getting on all this? Of course not, he got re-elected, doesn't need to worry voter votes anymore. But geez, lets hammer the media over the word "alleged". Pathetic.

skooter
skooter

You just don't get it. News is supposed to be news - not someone's opinion at the local editors desk - it's a job that supposed to be about accuracy. People can rant and rave and state their opinions in the ed & op pages all they want. It's supposed to be WHO, WHAT, WHERE & WHY not someone's opinion of those. It's like that little discussion we've had a myriad of times...being accurate, truthful and not repeating lies matters, even if it seemingly doesn't to many on the right when it suits them.

And who said it's a big deal? It's a story and a bunch of people commented, just like you are doing - about half calling it stupid and about half birther tinfoilers supporting it. Again...funny you and 5th only call out one side.

And again with your magic bean theory of governance...??!! It's not a monarchy...still got to work through the same difficult lame-duck channels to get stuff done. Get's better in Jan...but your side is already putting the word out that they still want to fight for the rich folk from the house. If they don't start reading the writing on the wall - they lost at every level and fairly clearly - the cliff will hit, and Dem will put a bill to reinstate middle class cuts in front of them and they'll have to sign either way, or risk telling middle class America how they really feel about us.

Your taxes are only going to go up if the right refuses to allow a tax increase for people making over 250K to go through, and then their will a soon to follow bill pushed to reinstate middle and working cuts. The only people that want to raise your taxes are the right you stand with who want to save their upper crust constituency. Your political logic of standing with the guys who will kneecap you for the rich guys, and then yelling at the side who wants to protect your taxes astounds me.

dietz1963

Here we go again, taxes already went up. How many times do I have to tell you that and they are going to go up...again. Talk about denial so I'll say it again. My retired pay statement 3 years in a row makes the statement "due to a change in the tax table, your federal taxes have INCREASED" Oh, so with that statement on the pay statement and the increase your saying what...its fantasy?

Even your bias news media network is saying this to avoid the fiscal cliff. And there you go again, blaming Republicans when...oh lets see, the President is a Democrat and the senate has Democatic majority. But here you going hinting it will be the Republicans fault if the cliff hits? If your party won't be spending money at a 4 to 1 rate of Bush with NO major wars going on right now, wouldn't be an issue.

Skooter, when do you ever call out your own side other then to "excuse" why they aren't doing squat? Haven't seen you call out the left for the mexico fiaco, for the libya fiasco, that unemployment is HIGHER then it was 4 years ago, that despite the "hope and change" we, in addition to everything else, are now facing a fiscal cliff. Heres a good one, did you know that more service members have died in Afghanistan in the last 4 years then the previous 7? Not calling that out? Don't hear you calling out the "affordable health care act" which is NOT lowering costs but INCREASING costs. Yea, you're calling your side out. NOT!

News is a joke. Its all about opinions and sensationalism to sell. I hear very little news reporting these days, short blurb at best then about a dozen or so "commentators" lending in their "opinion" as to what they think. And real experts too if you watch CNN, lets see, entertainers mostly. Never seen a regular, makes less then 6 figures average person that's "been there, done that" on T.V. news media. Nope, its generally some over 7 figure entertainer commenting when things basically don't touch them because..they're rich.

skooter
skooter

Dietz - just because you want to call everything a fiasco to make a political point along with those you echo doesn't mean I'm going to call anybody out - just like I didn't call out the right for 911. Get used to it. Your outrage is usually quite selective any based on trying to make political hay here.

You base your knowledge of tax policy on your retired pay table...quite a bit different. I can tell you quickly why it went up...you were probably getting a part of the stimulus through the make work pay credit to put more money in your hand and when that lapsed in returned to normal levels with normal cola increases. Normal - and not Obama's fault or anybody elses...and you benefited for 2 years if you claimed it. I found that out in 2 minutes...why couldn't you?

Sorry, as much as you complain, your taxes overall are lower than 4 years ago if you are on the middle or working classes. the sooner you get used to the fact that you can't actually say obama raised your taxes the sooner you can quit playing these false songs of pity.

I can't believe you don't remember that there are two house of congress and control of one still rest with the repubs. The right lost - and the majority of Americans voted to follow the Obama path to recovery NOT the right's plan to keep cutting taxes on the rich. They are still counting but it looks like Obama may soon be the first president in decades to get more than 51% of the popular vote (clue for you - Ronnie R didn't even do it). The right is still fighting to raise revenues w/o tax increases for the 250K plus crowd and that's not going to fly anymore. If they refuse to come to the table honestly then the cliff is a real possibility and it will be upon them.

I've called all sides out and will continue to do so - but I don't expect you to notice. But I also don't pretend I am an independent either. I am a democrat through and through and proud of it.

News is a joke only if you make a joke...by reading half of it, or repeating the lies of others. Good news and reporting still matters and it's different than opinion. Sorry you don't get that, but it is telling.

dietz1963

Skooter, I didn't get anything from the stimulous. Taxes were the same prior to the stimulous and didn't go up until after the stimulous was passed. Now, seems to me the timing of my taxes going up leads me to believe I paid for the stimulous, not that I got anything out of it. And your remark about my taxes are overall lower? How so? The reason prices are so high on some things are raising taxes. My rent has gone up 4 times in the last 4 years due to property taxes (a state issue, granted). So no, my taxes are certainly overall not lower and if pay went up to coincide, no problem. But it doesn't so....

Not sure why you think everything I happen to write is to make a political point. The only real poltical point I have is this, politics is broke. Its been broke and will continue to be broke. Until ALL eligible voters vote and not just 55%, until there are term limits, limits on age (I don't think someone in their 80s should be making decisions on a national level), take out lobbiests, nix the electoral vote....nothing is going to change. Anyone getting into political office has one of two choices. First choice, do the right thing and vote for whats right instead of along poltical lines in which case forget running for re-election (or maybe even staying in office, party might just seek to give them the boot) one way or the other, don't conform and the party will run you out. Second choice, vote along party lines, go with the flow, take the money and run....great to stay in office but is also why nothing gets done.

Oh and one last thing. Its splitting hairs, I know. But lets get the "majority of Americans voted to follow Obama" statement right. The majority of Americans that chose to vote, voted to follow Obama. Not the majority of Americans.

dietz1963

One big thing that is broke, laws they try to pass. I always hear that any given bill that makes sense is either held up by democrats or republicans. Come to find out, the main part of the bill isn't the problem, its the "niceties" tied to the bill one or the other party has a problem with. I wish I could remember which bill it is, but there is a bill that generally passes every year because Congressional pay raises are tied to it. Wonder why. There is a lot about politics you probably don't know. Here's one, did you know that the President appoints Generals (not just 4 star, but Col going to one star) and thats based on Congressional approval? About 12 years ago, general promotions across the board were held up because the AF wanted to close down a guard base (think it was in Georgia). The Senator of that state was concerned if the base went away, the town would go away due to jobs. The promotions were held up for 18 months until finally, the AF bucked under and left the base alone. Thats how the real polticial machine works.

skooter
skooter

Dietz - I know you are trying to play the grand contrarian but you do it so ham-fistedly it isn't hardly worth the argument. Yes, you are cynical...we get it. And you can pick cherry pick facts to pretend to make a point about all the things that are broke and fuel your disillusionment. Brilliant. But I do wonder about the sheer misinformation you either feed yourself or glean off those 'middle of the roaders' you claim in Michael Savage and his ilk.

You got most of the same thing everybody else got from the stimulus package - even if you are too close minded to realize or remember or take advantage. Maybe you were too bitter about losing the first go around to pay attention to the benefits there for the taking. Here's a few: individual 1 time tax refunds of up to 800, changes to the AGI levels (about a $500 per year change), senior tax credits (not for you), Make Work Pay tax credits (already mentioned and evidently missed by you),expanded earned income tax & child credits, AMT stop-gap that may have save you money, energy and car credits if you were interested, depending on a person's situation there were 1 time changes in unemployment payments, federally funded state programs and others to further put money back into the economy...and this includes none of the indirect benefits you as a MT citizen received from the overall stimulus spending from money not spent at the state level, jobs & infrastructure programs, note that the job market turned around shortly after the stimulus initially was enacted. I can't help you sticking you head in the sand for whatever reason and then pretending nobody does anything for poor dietz, That one is on you.

I can run you a list of factors a mile long that show the economy is improved after a fairly severe recession/depression...and while milk, gas and utilities haven't gone down, the fact is that gas fluctuates wildly, food stuff prices rarely go down once they go up and utilities are generally governed more at the state level (and you might blame the repub push to deregulate every industry years ago including MTpower for that fiasco). It's called inflation...always going up my man...are you just figuring that out?

And the majority of Americans did choose Obama...those are the ones that voted and the voter chose Obama not mittens. Your obtuse argument that more americans voting would have probably statistically provided the same result...but I didn't hear you complain when Bush won by smaller margins, or Ronnie...you might have to just deal with it. The country doesn't agree with your assessment or your notions or the leaders you choose to back. Moan about it all day - but the results are in...mitt is close to only getting 47% of the popular vote and Obama 53...a sound victory and two in row.

TheWalrus
TheWalrus

dietz1963 is allegedly a whiny little bed-wetting girl with severe emotional disorders and delusions of adequacy.

Hey, as long as I say "allegedly," what's the problem?

logicalsolutions

pretty darn funny if you ask me. Dem or Rep, you have to see the humor in this.

Sgravel

To be factual, most of the humor of the whole birther thing pretty much falls on one side of the aisle. But there were interesting spinoffs. Take Judge CeBull for example, and the turnout of black voters in the key battleground states might have made a difference.

This story made national news. Probably not the kind that Helena nor the Independent Record would like. Since much of the hoopala about the birther thing can be viewed as a frustration that somebody’s candidate lost, you have to wonder if that wasn't also an instigation for the “Copy Desk” involvement.

dietz1963

Please pass the democratic koolaid. I want some to get out of reality and join the rest in fantasy land.

Riamh
Riamh

What I find funny about this article is the fact that there are still birthers out there.

Anarchy
Anarchy

What's a birther?

capnbutch

Bookman,

Thanks for your kind comment and question.

I was not aware that AP was giving out its contact information. This is new. Good to know.

You asked for examples of thefts by AP; I was News Director at KWAL in Osburn, Idaho (FCC licensed to Wallace) back in the 1970s. My stories on the first and second Silver Valley Blood Lead surveys were copied almost verbatim by AP. The information AP used could not have been gathered in any way but through my work. Ditto for my reports on a union strike. A couple of smaller stories on difficulties at the Shoshone County Courthouse were stolen as well.

It was odd that my stories went out on AP affiliated newspapers because it is hard to listen to the radio and write them down.

TV is more important than radio today and most television stations put their reports on the Internet. Far easier to copy. I am retired and not acquainted with any TV journalists so I don't know what happens there.

In the old days, some traps were laid and the results were expensive. In Missoula, two radio stations did live calls of Grizzly football games. One of them failed to pay the price of a trip to Hawaii to follow the team so it had its sportscaster merely listen to the other station and pretend to be there as he delivered exactly the same play-by-play account. The manager at the copied station caught on and disrupted the broadcast. The fake report stopped, too, thus revealing the impropriety.

A complaint was filed and the station that copied paid a heavy price. Broadcasters own their work just as newspapers do. Everybody should play fair!

Sometimes the thefts are funny, as we occasionally see with "The Onion's" tricks on China. A few other astute organizations have set some delightful traps. There is a story about one newspaper originating an absurd story on the visit of a foreign ambassador named "E. W. Refllip Thenus."

The story was completely bogus and the ambassador's name was a play on "We pilfer The News." Embarrassment at the second paper was immense.

It is rare to have to make a big stink about these violations. There is humor in all and it is actually sort of an honor to be robbed this way. In my case, I complained to AP and the jerk at the other end smartmouthed me. It wasn't worth a lawsuit, though.

Complaints today are far more serious as they often involve Left-Wing Extremism. It pays to watch carefully. it is a relief when you are not the victim.

Welcome to the discussion.

Keep it Clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually-oriented language.
PLEASE TURN OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK.
Don't Threaten. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated.
Be Truthful. Don't knowingly lie about anyone or anything.
Be Nice. No racism, sexism or any sort of -ism that is degrading to another person.
Be Proactive. Use the 'Report' link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.
Share with Us. We'd love to hear eyewitness accounts, the history behind an article.